Comments on: Floyd Landis and the Tour de France as epic http://le-grimpeur.net/blog/archives/27 A cycling blog for everything climbing Wed, 01 Feb 2012 20:13:59 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Matt http://le-grimpeur.net/blog/archives/27/comment-page-1#comment-2939 Matt Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:45:16 +0000 http://le-grimpeur.net/blog/archives/27#comment-2939 Nice Barthes quote. After seeing that I like him even more. Nice Barthes quote. After seeing that I like him even more.

]]> By: trust but verify http://le-grimpeur.net/blog/archives/27/comment-page-1#comment-2930 trust but verify Wed, 12 Dec 2007 00:37:52 +0000 http://le-grimpeur.net/blog/archives/27#comment-2930 <i>In any case, why does everyone assume Allen Lim’s wattage figures are true? If Drs Ferrari or Cechini offered this stuff as a defence of one of there riders, who would take them seriously? For all we know Lim may have been instrumental in Landis’s doping programme. Do we just trust him because he’s American?</i> We might believe them because we have the contemporaneous records Lim kept during the tour, used internally by Landis and the team during the race. They are in the collection of documents released by Landis in November 2007, in the GDC exhibits at the AAA hearing. The ones at the end of the tour, including S17, are at http://ia351412.us.archive.org/1/items/Floyd_Landis_Case_Documents_14/GDC01091-GDC01100.pdf TBV In any case, why does everyone assume Allen Lim’s wattage figures are true? If Drs Ferrari or Cechini offered this stuff as a defence of one of there riders, who would take them seriously? For all we know Lim may have been instrumental in Landis’s doping programme. Do we just trust him because he’s American?

We might believe them because we have the contemporaneous records Lim kept during the tour, used internally by Landis and the team during the race.

They are in the collection of documents released by Landis in November 2007, in the GDC exhibits at the AAA hearing. The ones at the end of the tour, including S17, are at http://ia351412.us.archive.org/1/items/Floyd_Landis_Case_Documents_14/GDC01091-GDC01100.pdf

TBV

]]> By: Bill Currey http://le-grimpeur.net/blog/archives/27/comment-page-1#comment-2093 Bill Currey Sat, 20 Oct 2007 07:01:11 +0000 http://le-grimpeur.net/blog/archives/27#comment-2093 Comparing wattage output for a stage is meaningless anyway. Too much depends on weather, tactics. On stage 17 to Morzine nearly half of the stage was essentially flat with the peloton taking it easy after 2 hard days in the mountains. A protected rider would have a low wattage for nearly half the stage, (until Landis attacked). Subsequently there were 4 subatantial climbs, but also 4 descents (were wattage is often zero). In any case, why does everyone assume Allen Lim's wattage figures are true? If Drs Ferrari or Cechini offered this stuff as a defence of one of there riders, who would take them seriously? For all we know Lim may have been instrumental in Landis's doping programme. Do we just trust him because he's American? Comparing wattage output for a stage is meaningless anyway. Too much depends on weather, tactics. On stage 17 to Morzine nearly half of the stage was essentially flat with the peloton taking it easy after 2 hard days in the mountains. A protected rider would have a low wattage for nearly half the stage, (until Landis attacked). Subsequently there were 4 subatantial climbs, but also 4 descents (were wattage is often zero).
In any case, why does everyone assume Allen Lim’s wattage figures are true? If Drs Ferrari or Cechini offered this stuff as a defence of one of there riders, who would take them seriously? For all we know Lim may have been instrumental in Landis’s doping programme. Do we just trust him because he’s American?

]]> By: Devon http://le-grimpeur.net/blog/archives/27/comment-page-1#comment-2085 Devon Fri, 19 Oct 2007 23:27:04 +0000 http://le-grimpeur.net/blog/archives/27#comment-2085 Does anybody think he was just on testosterone? He just didn't use someone elses blood like Vino. Does anybody think he was just on testosterone? He just didn’t use someone elses blood like Vino.

]]> By: trust but verify http://le-grimpeur.net/blog/archives/27/comment-page-1#comment-2078 trust but verify Fri, 19 Oct 2007 13:58:30 +0000 http://le-grimpeur.net/blog/archives/27#comment-2078 I think you have inadvertantly placed some numbers in a way that suggest a conclusion that would be incorrect. In tabular form, you show wattage outputs up the climbs, and then cite his average power over an entire stage to Briancon in 2005. The numerical connotation is that his 395 watt climbs are suspicious compared to a 285 watt average. You need to go back many paragraphs to see that his average on Stage 17 was...281 watts, less than the stage selected as comparable in 2005. Landis has said that riders usually only have one huge climb in their legs for a stage, and the tactical surprise was that he was willing to do it on the first climb, not saving it for the last one. In having the team attack together, the field became strung out making it difficult for other contenders to talk among each other to decide what to do. As far as O'Grady's comments that he was pretty good, and the Landis' climbing has improved, consider the following. Stewey wasn't with Kloden, Armstrong Basso and Ulrich at the top of the Croix-Fry in 2004, where Landis hauled them all up to the top. There's also no mention made of Landis' time gains on the Morzine stage while descending, an issue of skill and nerve, not power. While losing time to Sastre up the Joux-Plane, Landis got back two minutes on the descent. How is it good for O'Grady's ego to admit he got snookered along with the rest of the field. Was he willing to give it his all on the first climb of the day, or did doubt creep in, allowing the gap to grow and grow? The stage remains a Rohrschach -- people will see what they wish to see. TBV http://trustbut.blogspot.com for Landis news, research, and comment I think you have inadvertantly placed some numbers in a way that suggest a conclusion that would be incorrect. In tabular form, you show wattage outputs up the climbs, and then cite his average power over an entire stage to Briancon in 2005. The numerical connotation is that his 395 watt climbs are suspicious compared to a 285 watt average. You need to go back many paragraphs to see that his average on Stage 17 was…281 watts, less than the stage selected as comparable in 2005.

Landis has said that riders usually only have one huge climb in their legs for a stage, and the tactical surprise was that he was willing to do it on the first climb, not saving it for the last one. In having the team attack together, the field became strung out making it difficult for other contenders to talk among each other to decide what to do.

As far as O’Grady’s comments that he was pretty good, and the Landis’ climbing has improved, consider the following. Stewey wasn’t with Kloden, Armstrong Basso and Ulrich at the top of the Croix-Fry in 2004, where Landis hauled them all up to the top.

There’s also no mention made of Landis’ time gains on the Morzine stage while descending, an issue of skill and nerve, not power. While losing time to Sastre up the Joux-Plane, Landis got back two minutes on the descent. How is it good for O’Grady’s ego to admit he got snookered along with the rest of the field. Was he willing to give it his all on the first climb of the day, or did doubt creep in, allowing the gap to grow and grow?

The stage remains a Rohrschach — people will see what they wish to see.

TBV

http://trustbut.blogspot.com for Landis news, research, and comment

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