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	<title>Comments on: The politics of bicycles</title>
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	<link>http://le-grimpeur.net/blog/archives/56</link>
	<description>A cycling blog for everything climbing</description>
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		<title>By: Samuel Sánchez has no shoulders &#8211; le grimpeur</title>
		<link>http://le-grimpeur.net/blog/archives/56/comment-page-1#comment-74434</link>
		<dc:creator>Samuel Sánchez has no shoulders &#8211; le grimpeur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Aug 2011 05:27:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://le-grimpeur.net/blog/archives/56#comment-74434</guid>
		<description>[...] then this is the debate for you. For an old post on the Basque cooperative that makes Orbea bikes, see here.   August 18, 2011 &#8211; 9:21 pm &#124; By Guy WR &#124; Posted in Climbers &#124; Tagged Alpe d&#039;Huez, Basques, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] then this is the debate for you. For an old post on the Basque cooperative that makes Orbea bikes, see here.   August 18, 2011 &#8211; 9:21 pm | By Guy WR | Posted in Climbers | Tagged Alpe d&#039;Huez, Basques, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: October is Coop Awareness Month&#160;/&#160; BOX DOG JOURNAL</title>
		<link>http://le-grimpeur.net/blog/archives/56/comment-page-1#comment-58582</link>
		<dc:creator>October is Coop Awareness Month&#160;/&#160; BOX DOG JOURNAL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Oct 2010 00:20:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://le-grimpeur.net/blog/archives/56#comment-58582</guid>
		<description>[...] Mondragon is home to Orbea, another cooperative you might have heard of.  Check them out here. Or read more about Mondragon generally in this recent clip from the Huffington [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Mondragon is home to Orbea, another cooperative you might have heard of.  Check them out here. Or read more about Mondragon generally in this recent clip from the Huffington [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Scoville Units Unite &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Get on yer Bike</title>
		<link>http://le-grimpeur.net/blog/archives/56/comment-page-1#comment-55519</link>
		<dc:creator>Scoville Units Unite &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Get on yer Bike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 18 May 2010 17:20:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://le-grimpeur.net/blog/archives/56#comment-55519</guid>
		<description>[...] Now price wasn&#8217;t really an issue between them, whichever was the best bike I would go for. I had heard of Ridgeback and Giant before but hadn&#8217;t heard of Orbea. When home I did a search and found out that: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Now price wasn&#8217;t really an issue between them, whichever was the best bike I would go for. I had heard of Ridgeback and Giant before but hadn&#8217;t heard of Orbea. When home I did a search and found out that: [...]</p>
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		<title>By: bbattle</title>
		<link>http://le-grimpeur.net/blog/archives/56/comment-page-1#comment-50894</link>
		<dc:creator>bbattle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 02:53:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://le-grimpeur.net/blog/archives/56#comment-50894</guid>
		<description>I bought my Orbea Dauphine because it fit me better than the Treks at the store.  I had no idea what was behind the company.  Indeed, I had never heard of them before buying the bike.  

I too, love the orange.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I bought my Orbea Dauphine because it fit me better than the Treks at the store.  I had no idea what was behind the company.  Indeed, I had never heard of them before buying the bike.  </p>
<p>I too, love the orange.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron</title>
		<link>http://le-grimpeur.net/blog/archives/56/comment-page-1#comment-43523</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2009 02:33:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://le-grimpeur.net/blog/archives/56#comment-43523</guid>
		<description>Question: are some brands actually noticeably better than their competitors for the average rider, or do they just win more races at the hands of professionals?


Given the bikes that pros race today, there is hardly much perceptible difference among them I suspect. They are only good in so far as how good they suit the rider fit wise and performance wise. Do they win more races at the hands of the professionals? Absolutely. Could do they do the same with a lower brand? They could. The business of cycling is such that there is a certain democracy. The best things that the pro&#039;s use, even normal riders like you and me can buy and use too. I think cycling business is really lucky to have this relationship with pro riders. I cannot see how else some of the big companies today would make their huge profits. Take Cervelo for example. They only make race bikes, and nothing for the utilitarian masses. Do they have a long and storied past, like Colnago does? No. But I suspect a large reason behind why they are selling is simply that pros are riding and winning more on them. Period. In fact, this brings about a delusion in the mind of consumers. Not only do they believe that they are sharing in the collective glory of the pro team by buying the same bike, they also entertain the notion that they will also win or somehow perform better with the same. To me, that second part is a delusion. Its a fancy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Question: are some brands actually noticeably better than their competitors for the average rider, or do they just win more races at the hands of professionals?</p>
<p>Given the bikes that pros race today, there is hardly much perceptible difference among them I suspect. They are only good in so far as how good they suit the rider fit wise and performance wise. Do they win more races at the hands of the professionals? Absolutely. Could do they do the same with a lower brand? They could. The business of cycling is such that there is a certain democracy. The best things that the pro&#8217;s use, even normal riders like you and me can buy and use too. I think cycling business is really lucky to have this relationship with pro riders. I cannot see how else some of the big companies today would make their huge profits. Take Cervelo for example. They only make race bikes, and nothing for the utilitarian masses. Do they have a long and storied past, like Colnago does? No. But I suspect a large reason behind why they are selling is simply that pros are riding and winning more on them. Period. In fact, this brings about a delusion in the mind of consumers. Not only do they believe that they are sharing in the collective glory of the pro team by buying the same bike, they also entertain the notion that they will also win or somehow perform better with the same. To me, that second part is a delusion. Its a fancy.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://le-grimpeur.net/blog/archives/56/comment-page-1#comment-26079</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jan 2009 17:03:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://le-grimpeur.net/blog/archives/56#comment-26079</guid>
		<description>Great Article.

On rare occasions I can see through the smoke &amp; mirrors of the bike industry and buy a frame or other component that works well period.  Orbea products seem to fall in this category.  Plus it&#039;s nice not to follow the crowd that follows the trends and buy a Trek or other well publicized bike.  On another note I recently got tired of replacing my ultralight road frame every three years and bought a steel road frame and built it up to 18 lbs - it should last 10 years!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great Article.</p>
<p>On rare occasions I can see through the smoke &amp; mirrors of the bike industry and buy a frame or other component that works well period.  Orbea products seem to fall in this category.  Plus it&#8217;s nice not to follow the crowd that follows the trends and buy a Trek or other well publicized bike.  On another note I recently got tired of replacing my ultralight road frame every three years and bought a steel road frame and built it up to 18 lbs &#8211; it should last 10 years!</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://le-grimpeur.net/blog/archives/56/comment-page-1#comment-22188</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 18:06:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://le-grimpeur.net/blog/archives/56#comment-22188</guid>
		<description>Grimpeur,

Thanks for another quality article.  

I picked up a used orange 2006 Orbea Onix last year and have been really enjoying it.  It was great to read about the roots and history of Orbea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grimpeur,</p>
<p>Thanks for another quality article.  </p>
<p>I picked up a used orange 2006 Orbea Onix last year and have been really enjoying it.  It was great to read about the roots and history of Orbea.</p>
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		<title>By: Guy WR</title>
		<link>http://le-grimpeur.net/blog/archives/56/comment-page-1#comment-22033</link>
		<dc:creator>Guy WR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 19:32:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://le-grimpeur.net/blog/archives/56#comment-22033</guid>
		<description>Gordon - a very interesting article. Thanks for the link (and the feedback)!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gordon &#8211; a very interesting article. Thanks for the link (and the feedback)!</p>
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		<title>By: Gordon</title>
		<link>http://le-grimpeur.net/blog/archives/56/comment-page-1#comment-22012</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 16:59:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://le-grimpeur.net/blog/archives/56#comment-22012</guid>
		<description>Guy,

Great piece and one that is obviously well researched. Just wanted to add to your post by highlighting the concept of emotional design, the notion of how we experience the design of objects, put forth by design theorist Donald Norman in a book of the same title. He states that there are 3 levels of design at play: &lt;a href=&quot;http://jnd.org/dn.mss/emotional_design_people_and_things.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;visceral, behavioural, and reflective&lt;/a&gt;. You have clearly picked up on the reflective nature of the bicycle, the politics and meaning behind associating yourself with the machine. Beyond the crisp shifting of your gruppo (behavioural) and that feeling you get when you admire the orange paint (visceral), the story behind the bicycle matters to you and your values. 

Well done and see you on Seymour.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Guy,</p>
<p>Great piece and one that is obviously well researched. Just wanted to add to your post by highlighting the concept of emotional design, the notion of how we experience the design of objects, put forth by design theorist Donald Norman in a book of the same title. He states that there are 3 levels of design at play: <a href="http://jnd.org/dn.mss/emotional_design_people_and_things.html" rel="nofollow">visceral, behavioural, and reflective</a>. You have clearly picked up on the reflective nature of the bicycle, the politics and meaning behind associating yourself with the machine. Beyond the crisp shifting of your gruppo (behavioural) and that feeling you get when you admire the orange paint (visceral), the story behind the bicycle matters to you and your values. </p>
<p>Well done and see you on Seymour.</p>
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